Designing an App

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Answer
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 15:17:56   

Hey guys,

i was just wondering if you coders here, use pencil and paper to do your capturing of requirements/designing or if you use word or something...

I tend to not like to design on "paper" up front, but rather all in my head. Mostly becuase i dont know the correct way to do it i guess. I am in the computer engineering program right now so we dont get any software design stuff rage and frankly i dont want to pay $$$ to take a class that i could learn on my own through examples in like a week.

Anyone have any good websites or examples? I have searched google but cant find much, i guess i am just not using the right keywords.

Otis avatar
Otis
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 15:56:26   

OpenOffice simple_smile

A design document which contains descriptions of the big line in the application and describes per part how it works, what it does etc. I write these when I'm designing a part of the application. So thoughts about how to do it are written in there. This helps ordening the stuff out and what's better: you don't forget how something works/design decisions (!) over time.

I use pieces of paper to draw / write quick reminders how something should work, as a scratchpad.

If I'm confident I know what I have to implement, I'm going to implement the code.

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
alexdresko
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# Posted on: 11-Jul-2004 23:34:39   

Answer wrote:

I tend to not like to design on "paper" up front, but rather all in my head. Mostly becuase i dont know the correct way to do it i guess. I am in the computer engineering program right now so we dont get any software design stuff rage and frankly i dont want to pay $$$ to take a class that i could learn on my own through examples in like a week.

Not knowing how to create the documentation you wish you had is a common stumbling block. From my experience, taking a class would probably be very beneficial. However, I didn't take classes. Instead, I opted to read half a dozen books of varying but related subjects. Sure, you could search the internet to get you started (check out http://www.processimpact.com/goodies.shtml for some GREAT starter templates and information!) but there is no substitution for the wealth of knowledge that can be gained by reading a couple of books. It will also help you break out of that, "I wish I knew where to start" mind frame.

I have to stop now before I start regurgitating quotes from books and lessons learned. simple_smile

sirshannon
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 06:08:31   

I use MS OneNote as my first step. It is the best tool for outlines I've ever seen, dragging and dropping and re-arranging works like a dream. If I had a Tablet PC, it would be perfect.

I would suggest you start using Visio, especially if you use the SQL Server diagram tool in Enterprise Manager at all.

Answer
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 06:35:47   

(check out http://www.processimpact.com/goodies.shtml for some GREAT starter templates and information!)

Thats got some sample ones, exactly what i am looking for. Anyone else have any samples from a real project or know a site that makes some available?

I actually have a book, that is pretty good, the problem i have is that it drags thing out, and i dont have the time to read all the extra stuff with it to understand whats going on...i have a short attention span, hence the reason i like reference manuals simple_smile

Answer
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 06:37:08   

I would suggest you start using Visio, especially if you use the SQL Server diagram tool in Enterprise Manager at all.

Do you generally use UML to design your app?

Naturally i bought the Enterprise Developer edition of MSDN so i dont get visio...rats...

jeffreygg
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 09:42:06   

You know, I'm starting to check out the beta for Whidbey, and so far I'm impressed by it's built-in modeling abilities. Talk about productivity enhancers. It's a lot like Visio's software modeling abilities, but there's something -better- about it. Maybe it's something about the comfort of knowing your changes to the model are happening in real-time; I'm not sure, but it's nice. If you have access to the beta be sure to check it out.

Jeff...

Otis avatar
Otis
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 10:00:41   

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint) smile

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
jeffreygg
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 10:29:43   

Otis wrote:

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint) smile

OOOoooo. <begins to salivate>

Official Feature Request List For LLBLGen Pro Add-In to Visual Studio 2005

  1. Integrated Designer (obviously simple_smile )
  2. Real-time, automatic code generation and compiles from changes to entity definitions (i.e., the elimination of code generation as a necessary, manual step)
  3. Drag and drop support for entityclasses onto the design surface (for dependency mapping and inclusion into the model)
  4. Ability to map/create entities from in-code typed datasets/XML documents and use them as data sources
  5. In-IDE support for entity modification/extension and inheritance design?

Ok. Wet dream's over. Nothing to see here people. Move along....These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Jeff...

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 10:41:51   

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great.

I know i am always telling everybody about what a great tool delphi use to bestuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

Just though i should tell you again that delphi had this for the last 3 years. It was a thirdparty add-on called ModelMaker. The poor M$ developers are ony now discovering or starting to make use of the advanced type of tools that have been around for atleat 2-3 years.

Personally i don't like Visio (Any version) it always seems buggy to me. Like when i have to create ERD's using it. It sucks..there is much better tools out there.

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

hmmmm, maybe we are the only friends you have?....What do you mean 1:30 in the morning? It is already 10:45 here.wink stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 11:06:12   

Anyone have any good websites or examples? I have searched google but cant find much, i guess i am just not using the right keywords.

NO websites that i know of, but here is the method we use.

  • Do a requirements document. - What is this project or module suppose to do - Do NOT get technical.
  • Lay out to flow of data in diagram of some sorts. - Case diagram
  • Identify the different processes and write a little overview of each - Do NOT get technical
  • if a database is to be used. Sit down and design the database by looking at the processes. Create an ERD as part of the documentation
  • Analize each process - and do a Class diagram on how it is suppose to work
  • Create one big class diagram so you can see that you are not duplicating simular classes
  • Take each class - describe it's purpose - Now you can get a little technical.
  • Distribute the work in module section between the developers - with documentation included
  • Review the work as a group after each module - if doing a project as hole - review everyweek

Seeing as this can be alot of work to for a project devide the project into smaller modules. Like when you start with a new project plan and create the security module first - with login's and all of that and then the rest of the system.

Otis avatar
Otis
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 11:11:57   

jeffreygg wrote:

Otis wrote:

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint) smile

OOOoooo. <begins to salivate>

hahaha simple_smile

Official Feature Request List For LLBLGen Pro Add-In to Visual Studio 2005

Uhoh wink

  1. Integrated Designer (obviously simple_smile )

With the whitehorse stuff, I really like that indeed. simple_smile I'm not sure if you have to become a vs.net gold partner for 10,000$ a year to get access to those thingies.

  1. Real-time, automatic code generation and compiles from changes to entity definitions (i.e., the elimination of code generation as a necessary, manual step)

You want that? I'd suggest you don't want that simple_smile . You want to design the specifics, and after you're done let the tool finalize your specifics.

  1. Ability to map/create entities from in-code typed datasets/XML documents and use them as data sources

Xml databases? hmm... Not sure if that's possible though, through the different nature of xml

  1. In-IDE support for entity modification/extension and inheritance design?

This will come (in the designer) before the end of the year: import of assembly with classes and mapping of classes onto tables and the other way around map tables on a hierarchy of entity classes.

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

I don't want to know wink

Make some hot chocolate and go back to bed simple_smile At least you CAN go to bed now, we here are suffering morning blues already wink

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
Answer
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 17:03:09   

Why in the hell would you make hot chocolate? that has caffenine stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye I shouldnt talk though, i generally will grab a can of Mt. Dew..simple_smile

warm up some milk or something wink

Otis avatar
Otis
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 17:16:23   

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk? simple_smile

(chocolate doesn't contain caffeine if I'm correct, but please correct me if I'm wrong)

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
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netclectic
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 17:32:09   

Horlicks is what you want if you can't sleep!

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BSAPD
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 19:42:27   

Otis wrote:

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk? simple_smile

(chocolate doesn't contain caffeine if I'm correct, but please correct me if I'm wrong)

Actually chocolate does contain caffeine wink :

http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4908/calories.htm

Otis avatar
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# Posted on: 14-Jul-2004 20:18:03   

cool, didn't know that simple_smile

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
Answer
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 00:18:40   

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

Over here, hot chocolate comes in a package, you add water and warm up...Defineatly is not hot chocolate milk stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

Althought, it would work smile

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wayne
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 09:41:10   

I better add this hot chocolate tip to my list...

  • Do a requirements document................while drinking Hot chocolate milkwink
Skeeterbug
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 16:28:39   

Answer wrote:

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

Over here, hot chocolate comes in a package, you add water and warm up...Defineatly is not hot chocolate milk stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

Althought, it would work smile

Answer, you can add milk to those packages instead of water. Silly boy.

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netclectic
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 16:31:02   

Skeeterbug wrote:

Answer, you can add milk to those packages instead of water. Silly boy.

Same goes for coffee... make your instant coffee with hot milk instead of hot water stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 17:03:30   

And i thought the "It is Friday!" thread has gone off-topicwink

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netclectic
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 17:09:40   

Well, it is Thursday smile

Answer
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 18:45:55   

Yeah but white milk simple_smile It then becomes chocolate.

I just have never heard of hot chocolate being chocolate milk simple_smile

but i guess it could be, most the US calls pop, soda stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

jeffreygg
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# Posted on: 15-Jul-2004 20:32:13   

Answer wrote:

but i guess it could be, most the US calls pop, soda stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

I beg to differ. I just think that there are some that call soda, "pop". wink sunglasses

Jeff...

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